TAZ: M -Pavlik, the federal government is currently implements what the trade union calls the “asylum seekers”: refugee renunciations, increasing border control and suspension of family reunification for subsidiary protection. Do you support this asylum policy?
Natalie Pavlik: I think that the term asylum seeker is misleading and too short. And I see many measures critically for humanitarian reasons, especially for the reunification of the family. People who have a family around them are clearly better integrated. In the end, the coalition agreement is a political compromise. And I also see many positive things in this, we talk too little about it.
Taz: The Federal Ministry of the Interior, led by Alexander Dobrindt (CSU), continues to manage the refusal, although Richter announced this illegal in the event of three Somalians. Do you find this right?
PAWLIK: I expect that the Federal Ministry of the Interior and its ministry will act legally. This is, of course.
In an interview: Natalie Pavlik
32, is a SPD politician and was previously ordered by the party on issues and national minorities. She was born in the east in Siberian, in 1999 the family came to Germany as a late repatriates.
TAZ: How does cooperation with Dobrintt work?
PAWLIK: Professional. Even if we have different positions on individual topics, I do not consider myself his colleague. I work for us to improve the basics of integration in our country together.
TAZ: Would you also describe lawyers as an “anti-reporting industry”, like Dobrindt several years ago?
PAWLIK: No. I think this is populist. Both participants make an important contribution to society.
TAZ: More than a week ago, an Islamist attack occurred in Syria with more than 20 deaths. The Union and SPD want to deport them there. Is it justified?
PAWLIK: The situation in Syria is still very fragile. The federal government and the authorities are very closely monitoring this. In fact, I do not believe in deporting people to war and crisis areas where they cannot live safely.
TAZ: Then, more than 2000 Afghans stuck in Pakistan, although they have a reception in Germany. The union, obviously, wants to leave him there …
PAWLIK: Germany must support its obligations. These people should receive the prospect of admission. We are responsible for you. And recording programs for people in need of protection are an important tool for legal and safe immigration routes.
Taz: Didn’t the federal government stop such programs?
PAWLIK: I am mostly concerned about resettlement programs in which the protection requirement is checked before the entrance. This allows us to help to avoid a person, but orderly. These programs are currently interrupted, I am campaigns for quick renewal. There can be no implementation of the reform of the general European shelter without relocation.
TAZ: Should these programs replace the individual asylum law?
PAWLIK: No, resettlement complements the separate protection of refugees using asylum procedures.
TAZ: Hamas attack on October 7 and the next war in gas is also polarized here. Recently in Berlin there was a large demonstration of solidarity with people in Gaza. The main demand: Germany should stop delivering weapons to Israel. How do you see this?
PAWLIK: The situation in Gaza, of course, also leads me. Locals suffer and cut off from humanitarian assistance. In principle, I think to check the supply of weapons, regardless of where. Israel must adhere to international law, including the protection of the civilian population.
TAZ: The flags of the ISS and the Taliban were noticed at the demonstrations. They say that the participants have anti -Semitic slogans.
Natalie Pavlik in a conversation with TAZ at the end of June
Photo:
Road Zinn
PAWLIK: People who live here must share our values and stand behind a free democratic basic order. Islamism is not compatible with this. Therefore, I also support preventive projects against extremism and dialogue projects between Muslims and Jews, for example, explain inhuman ideologies.
Taz: Until now, the authorities and politics are primarily related to the missing demonstrations. Some of these measures gather in court again. Does it really make sense?
PAWLIK: Anyone who demonstrates peacefully here is protected by the Basic Law. The security forces and measures of policy are the result of the fact that there were repeated violations and anti -Semitic incidents. However, with democracy, it is also important that the dishes are checked by such measures on their own.
TAZ: Does the topic miss the German immigration society?
PAWLIK: The situation in the Middle East has long been swaying people. The vast majority of people who live here want peace in the region.
TAZ: So far, the office of officers of integration and anti -racism was located in the office. Now they were transferred to the Ministry of Labor. Is this really a descent?
PAWLIK: Not at all. An integration employee was appointed to various ministries in the past. The Ministry of Labor is currently a good anchor, because participation in the labor market is also part of successful integration. Now it does not work smoothly. For example, slow recognition of foreign professional qualifications is the main obstacle.
TAZ: In the future, the main attention is paid to economic aspects, such as a set of specialists from the border?
PAWLIK: No. Participation in the labor market is an important prerequisite for the good in our society. Of course, my work is also devoted to a set of specialists. But there are also many people who have been here for a long time, but could not develop their potential for various reasons.
TAZ: A set of specialists will probably be crucial for whether the German economy comes out of the crisis. The coalition agreement is a little subtle when it comes to specific measures …
PAWLIK: I do not see this in this way. The hiring process lasted a long time, and we should become better here. To do this, we are now creating a working agency that allows all processes from one source. And we rely on the digitization of the administration and the relief of the immigration authorities. We will expand integration and language courses and allow foreign students to stay here after completing the withdrawal.
TAZ: What are your central projects?
PAWLIK: I think that we are talking too much about return and recovery, but too little about good infrastructure for integration with us. We are talking about how we create a society in which everyone gets the best chances regardless of their origin. This begins with small in kindergartens and primary schools. Therefore, it is important that the federal government put more in education and integration and that we expand the program to start chances …
TAZ: … a financing program that gives schools with many disadvantaged students …
PAWLIK: Exactly. Now we will expand this to kindergartens, because good initial conditions are necessary for the path of life. I recognized myself when I came to Germany from Siberia, when I was six years old. The experience that I had in the early 2000s is still a reality of the life of many children and adolescents. I know what this means if parents cannot help you with your homework, simply because they do not speak the language. Or how unfair it is when parents cannot pay tutoring, even if they work. Social origin is still solving the chances of life.
TAZ: One of the flagship projects of the traffic light, when it comes to integration, was the right to stay: long -term people receive a legal rest if they manage to comply with certain conditions -for example, to ensure their livelihood. Now it should be much more restrictive. Is it smart?
PAWLIK: It makes no sense to leave people in tolerance for decades. I think that it makes sense that people who learn German integrate themselves and earn their livelihood, get a fair opportunity. It is also about recognition of reality. Many people in constant duty for a long time were part of society. We need more pragmatism.
TAZ: A few days ago, the IAB study showed that only 57 percent of immigrants remain forever in Germany and, in particular, they often want to go to specialists. The reasons are, for example, general discontent, high taxes and bureaucracy. What does this follow the federal government?
PAWLIK: Here we must resist when people leave Germany, because they do not feel comfortable and welcome here. Of course, the topic of racism also plays a role. As anti -racism, this is a clear procedure.
TAZ: Also in your own government coalition? Light light contributed to naturalization. At that time, trade union politicians spoke of the “betrayal” of the German passport. Now, three years later, the Union and SPD have been able to reject naturalization for especially well -well -being. Are you holding specialists in the country?
PAWLIK: This rhetoric is not smart. And I also believe that the end of these faster naturalizations is unprofitable, because it breaks people who are especially tiring. But, as I said: the coalition agreement is a compromise. It also includes that the rest of the legislation on a large reform of citizenship remains last year.
TAZ: AFD, which currently poses a real threat to democracy and is open to people with migration experience, is also not particularly useful for the attractiveness of Germany. Do you need a ban?
PAWLIK: I am for the fact that I underwent the study of constitutionality. Basically, however, we must work in order to get the right extremist ideology from people’s minds.
