It was the first time that she danced in the lands of Juana la Macarrona and she had to do it through this festival that crossed cultures with America, the Ibero-American Festival of Cádiz, which opened the edition of this year with Scheherazade its 39th edition. And the Gran Teatro Falla, with its warm seats, received it with admiration and enthusiasm. More than ten minutes of applause and olés greeted this feminist and poetic dance-theatre show in which the figure of this dancer with sinuous arms and one of the most powerful anchored plants in flamenco predominated.
This newspaper spoke with her and her companion, the Moroccan poet El Larbi El Harti, author of her shows. Pagés talks about her journey, the figure of women in dance and a new adventure: the new dance center that will be inaugurated next year at the Matadero de Madrid, the main cultural project of Madrid City Hall led by the delegate for culture Marta Rivera de la Croix.
María Pagés began dancing at the age of 15 in the company of María Rosa in a Madrid of 1978 which was panting after a long dictatorship, then she would do so with the company of Antonio Gades. Since 1990 he has had his own business. Today, after a brilliant career that has taken her to the four corners of the world, this Sevillian (National Prize in 2002 and Princess of Asturias Prize in 2022) is experiencing a moment of stage maturity. Its history represents half of the life of dance and flamenco in this country.
Currently, the world of flamenco accepts and appreciates iconoclasts like Israel Galván or Rocío Molina. But first, many others had to face a traditionalist Spain where no renewal was accepted. However, with this work, ScheherazadePagés received one of the biggest applause of her career at the Teatro de la Maestranza, a thorn that this Sevillian was able to remove.
When I was younger, Orthodoxy must have made them fat, right?
Maria Pages: Uyyy, I have fought everything and more, but there comes a time when it is overcome. It’s strange, but that’s how it is. At the end of the day, you say what you believe and that’s it, and in the end we all come from the same background and drink from the same source. Furthermore, the question of purists is almost ghostly, they are people who in reality almost no longer exist, but hey, some of them are still there.
First time in Cádiz, how are you coping?
Maria Pages: It’s the first time, I’m terribly excited. I don’t know how many times I went to New York, we did 38 tours in Japan, we went to Beijing, Paris, Moscow… And I had never danced in Cádiz. Imagine the excitement I have. Fate said it should be like this, well, so be it.
Scheherazade It is a piece for eleven dancers, with two singers, two guitars, a violin, a cello and percussion, a large production created at the Gran Teatre Liceu in 2022 with which flamenco was present for the first time at the he impressive Salzburg Festival, but what worlds are we talking about?
El Arbi El Harti: It’s a job that comes after An ode to timea work that already reflected the moment of tired democracies and the beginning of populism. With Scheherazade We are already in the fucking crisis, we are already in the violence, we are already in the aggression, we are already in the cult of death. for us Scheherazade It is the word, but through dance, the word as a tool of salvation, there is only one hope of speaking again, there is no other.
On stage in this Scheherazade woman reigns
Maria Pages: We are all women. The voices, all the words that we will hear, that will be said, sung or danced, are those of women. The role of Scheherazade runs through the entire work. The beginning is an assault, a conquest of space by her. Scheherazade leads, attracts, kisses other women, and even in moments where violence arises, this character, who is older and could have been a Bernarda, a Medea or a Sappho, unites and weaves until create a common space and a common voice, a common horizon.
We could say that Scheherazade offers insight into how the word of reconciliation has always been present among women. You have seen this profession and this country evolve since your arrival in Madrid in 1978. How do you see the current situation of women in dance?
Maria Pages: Dance is probably the most feminine of all the arts, even in terms of dedication. In the society of authors we are the majority, it is the only discipline in which this is the case, this is perhaps why it is sometimes the most marginalized, the one which has been the most punished, the one which was the most isolated, the one in which we believed the least. The marginalization of dance is linked to the patriarchal society in which we live.
The Spain of 1978 must have little resemblance to that of today, right?
Maria Pages: I have gone through very different stages, I am today one of the last members of my active generation. Fortunately, when I started, it coincided with a big change in this country. And these great social changes greatly influenced the development of dance. When I started going to Seville and talking to them about choreography, I spoke to them in Chinese.
You could say that we have evolved somewhat…
Maria Pages: Dance has evolved a lot since I started and so has the role of women. Today, flamenco dance is experiencing a moment of great feminine importance. And this is nothing other than a reflection of the great progress made in our society. The problem is that now everything is going backwards, we are plunged into a great human crisis of thought. And all this will have consequences, in the dance the evil spirits also return, we enter into retreat, in a moment of withdrawal.
Does it refer to the possibilities of projecting dance, of spinning, of giving visibility?
Maria Pages: We could be in a very brilliant moment, because after many years we have reached spaces that were previously closed, but this is not the case. There is no possibility of realizing the existing creative potential. You can only go on tour with four people and two of them must be technicians. To do a good tour, you can only have two people on stage, otherwise it doesn’t work. So what is the use of creativity and all the stage development, wisdom and accumulated knowledge?
The Matadero dance center: a large-scale adventure
In January this year, Madrid City Council announced María Pagés as the new director of Nave 11, which would focus on dance. Since this announcement and in negotiation with the City Hall, María Pagés and El Arbi have managed to carry out a much larger project, a dance center that will have 38 people working, 20 newly hired people and 18 people from the staff of Madrid Destino, the municipality management company of the Town Hall, which will be assigned to this center. In addition, work worth 2,164,000 euros was undertaken to prepare Nave 11 for dance and rehearsal rooms and offices, i.e. 1,200 square meters, are being fitted out in Nave 16.
The director of the center will be María Pagés and El Arbi will be the deputy director, an artistic direction for which the Town Hall has allocated 164,000 euros. In addition, management will have €15,000 available for travel expenses. The approved offer is for a period of four years. This is the biggest project undertaken by Madrid City Hall in years in terms of culture, it is the major project of the delegate for culture, Marta Rivera de la Cruz. The work continues and very little is known about the project presented by Pagés, to say nothing. There was no competition and the nomination was direct.
What can you tell us about the new project you are involved in?
El Arbi: We are very happy, but with a lot of work. Since we took over the artistic direction of Matadero, which is a project that is being built from scratch, we have had to slow down a little, let go of touring. In addition, we have the Fuenlabrada choreographic center, which is already functioning but also needs to be maintained.
When do they open?
El Arbi: We have already planned the entire season, but the work continues. The work is expected to be completed in April. But before the end of the year we will present the project.
Could you move one of your lines forward?
Maria Pages: The Town Hall understood and supported our project, we wanted a choreographic center and that is what we are building. Logically, it is not just an exhibition, but there will be creative research work, there will be residencies, associated artists and co-productions, the important thing is that Madrid has a center dedicated to dance with resources.
Do you already have a new piece of your company for the Center?
Maria Pages: Not at the moment, the construction work at the center is very demanding, there are no hours in the day. But the truth is that we have already thought of one. I think the closure will be the same, the final touch. It will be for 2026. Now we are so absorbed by the Matadero project that it is difficult to think about it but there is an idea brewing, there is the idea of a very beautiful text that El Arbi wrote .
El Arbi: Mary’s story is beautiful. It syncretizes what this country is. She is Catalan, Andalusian by accident, the only daughter of her family and she turns out to be a frog, Flemish. He went to Madrid at the age of 15, at 16 he made his first tour to Japan and the USSR with the company of María Rosa and he never returned to Seville. But we will see, it is now a matter of creating a stable center that lasts over time. We don’t want anything more, what María wants is to give back, to return everything she has received and accumulated over the years, what interests us most is that María leaves a legacy.
Maria Pages: It’s a very good project, there is a look at dance made in Spain, both those who are consolidated and those who are just starting out. But little by little, we are no longer forty and we are not eternal.
